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Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By setherick
11/19/2017 2:46 pm
This is a quick update to two positions - WR and CB. In MFN-1 and Beta-87, we have been testing some updates to QB decision making. This means that I have been looking more closely at coverage, and I noticed something that I had been overlooking all this time with B&R coverage.

I noticed that CBs were getting burned badly on plays when they were supposed to be in tight man coverage. As someone who runs a lot of Cover 5 on early downs and while run blitzing, this bothered me a lot. This was happening more frequently in the beta leagues because the QB would throw the ball as soon as the WR broke free of the CBs cover. On closer inspection, this mostly happened when the CB came up to jam the WR at the line.

This observation led me to tracking down this post by JDB:

jdavidbakr wrote:
Rotor wrote:
Does this rating matter, do bump & run influence the outcome of pass plays (how, slowing the route progression?) I never saw a corner "press his receiver on the line" and they invariably start several yards from him but maybe I don't interpret correctly what I see. Thanks in advance for your input!


There is a decision that your CBs make to decide whether to play off the WR or play close and bump and run. Usually this decreases with faster WR's so the CB doesn't get beat; you'll know if the CB is playing bump and run because he'll be right on the LOS when the play starts.

B&R will slow the pattern down (depending on the WR's B&R avoidance) because the WR's velocity is interrupted. This potentially could give the DL a bit of extra time before the WR completes his route. So it doesn't have a huge impact, but may tilt the scales slightly on some plays.


So with all of that, I have added B&R back to my CB and WR weights. In fact, I've started looking at B&R as being more important than M2M because the effects of bad B&R are disastrous in the code being tested. I still consider these weights in a testing phase, but they seem to be working in that I give up fewer long passes because the CB missed the jam at the line.

WR
100 - Speed
70 - Catching
35 - B&R Avoid, Route
25 - Courage, Intelligence, Acceleration
15 - Ball Carry
1 - Discipline, Avoid Fumble, Run Blocking, Strength

CB
100 - Speed
70 - B&R Cover
35 - Tackle, M2M Cover
25 - Acceleration
15 - Intelligence, Punish, Zone
1 - Strength, Pass Rush, Run Defense

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By amalric7
11/25/2017 4:05 pm
First off, let me say as a newcomer to this game many thanks for these. I found the player weights for my team to be far removed from these (they may have worked but the levels of support in here spoke volumes).

But I do have one query: LDE has Pass Rush as Primary (70) and Run Defence as Quaternary (15), while RDE has the opposite. Shouldn't these be reversed? The LDE plays over the RT and TE and is traditionally a run stuffer, whereas the RDE plays over the LT and is traditionally a pass rusher.

This could all still be true and I'm reading the ratings all wrong, but I just wanted to check. Maybe tradition goes out the window and the RDE needs to prioritise run defence here, seen stranger things in sims!

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By setherick
11/25/2017 4:07 pm
amalric7 wrote:
First off, let me say as a newcomer to this game many thanks for these. I found the player weights for my team to be far removed from these (they may have worked but the levels of support in here spoke volumes).

But I do have one query: LDE has Pass Rush as Primary (70) and Run Defence as Quaternary (15), while RDE has the opposite. Shouldn't these be reversed? The LDE plays over the RT and TE and is traditionally a run stuffer, whereas the RDE plays over the LT and is traditionally a pass rusher.

This could all still be true and I'm reading the ratings all wrong, but I just wanted to check. Maybe tradition goes out the window and the RDE needs to prioritise run defence here, seen stranger things in sims!


I have an explanation way back on the first post, but it's buried.

RDE Analysis: I did a lot of extensive scouting for awhile, and I've found that rough 90% of all runs go to the weak side of the line. This means that your RDE should be a run stopper more than a pass rusher. You can always sub one of your back up LDEs in for the RDE in passing situations.

What I should have added in that analysis was that these are "effective" runs. There are plays that go to the strong side, but I have found fewer of them to be effective and I have seen fewer owner run them.
Last edited at 11/25/2017 4:08 pm

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By kursetheday
2/21/2018 4:12 pm
Being a first time player, it really saddens me to alter these player weights and my starters drop 19 points, and I see why the team I took over was ranked 27th at the end of the season...

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By Smirt211
2/21/2018 6:49 pm
Never mind, I was responding to a different type of player weights....literal ones.

lol
Last edited at 2/21/2018 6:53 pm

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By setherick
3/04/2018 11:27 pm
As some of you know, things are about to get crazy (really crazy) for me at work for the next 6 months to a year. Before things get really out of hand, I wanted to provide an update to this thread based on some experimenting I have been doing.

Current weights: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MEH1WBhgvvauY8R91PXfaRd9JzdTGsfq/view?usp=sharing

These current weights are driven off of the following threads:

*Basic defensive game planning: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/3/3581
*Advanced defensive game planning: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/3/3791
*Advanced defensive game planning - Part 3 - Assignments Tab Driven M2M: https://die-hard-fans.myfootballnow.com/community/3/4170

What weights mean?
It's a good reminder to everyone that weights work on percentile scales, which means 100 in any weight means the full value of a player's attribute is counted toward his overall. Whereas 50 means that the attribute value is weighted as (Attribute/2) where 50 is the highest score you can have in that weight class. Then you take the adjusted sum of all of the player's attributes and divide it by the weighted total. All of this means that when you see that I weight some attributes at 100 and all others at 25 for a position (like QBs) that just means that I see that 100 attribute being that much more than any of those other attributes for that position. It doesn't mean that the attribute is unimportant for all positions, it just means that it is more important for others.

Position Notes
The only thing I'm going to explicitly call out today is the importance of B&R for cover players.

In v 0.4.2, there is a minor glitch in the B&R calculations that causes slower cover players with bad B&R to move into B&R cover more often. [There is a thread about this somewhere if you're interested. I'm not going to re-hash it here.]

The moral of this story is if you do not want your cover players with bad B&R getting smoked off the line, you need to disproportionately weight B&R against M2M until v 0.4.3 is released. V 0.4.3 fixes this glitch so that bad B&R players don't come up to play B&R as much, but they will get smoked just as badly when they do, so avoid playing bad B&R CBs (or really any cover player).
Last edited at 3/04/2018 11:28 pm

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By CrazySexyBeast
11/08/2018 12:14 am
in most recent google drive doc (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MEH1WBhgvvauY8R91PXfaRd9JzdTGsfq/view), CB: tackle is in 2 categories: Secondary (35) and Quaternary (15). I'm going with Secondary for now. Great information. Thanks for the foundation.
Also: Question? I have seen an introduction of weights given to zone coverage. Does this imply that previous statements regarding zone coverage as grossly flawed should be reconsidered?
Last edited at 11/08/2018 12:27 am

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By setherick
11/08/2018 12:16 am
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
in most recent google drive doc (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MEH1WBhgvvauY8R91PXfaRd9JzdTGsfq/view), CB: tackle is in 2 categories: Secondary (35) and Quaternary (15). I'm going with Secondary for now. Great information. Thanks for the foundation.


Pretty sure that typo happened when I was converting the document. I usually have tackle in the Quaternary spot.

I'm actually modifying weights to account for 0.4.3 (and 0.4.4 in beta) better. But I'm not necessarily happy with them.

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By Hellbringer
11/09/2018 7:56 pm
How do you not play b&r?

Re: Most Important Attributes by Position (Revised and Updated)

By setherick
11/09/2018 8:30 pm
Hellbringer wrote:
How do you not play b&r?


It's AI controlled. Lower B&R players shouldn't try to jam as much as better B&R players, but it's not player controllable. :|