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Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Booger926
4/23/2017 4:17 pm
bgedgerly wrote:
I think this would be an easy fix to implement, and it would make the game more realistic.


Yea, because one can't get enough of long bombs and blitzes every play.
Last edited at 4/23/2017 4:19 pm

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By bgedgerly
4/23/2017 4:22 pm
Booger926 wrote:
bgedgerly wrote:

There is no reason that a college MLB should be able to walk in the the pros and play any position other than LB effectively, or be able to do so for several years. Have the non-major positions grow much slower than their 'natural positions' so that spending a high draft pick on a player you plan to move isn't as inviting. Naturally, intelligence will still determine how fast someone can advance at a different position. I think this would be an easy fix to implement, and it would make the game more realistic.


I have to argue with your reasoning be cause I know personally how a person can adapt to a position.
My older brother's friend with who he also played football was a All American and highly recruited high school running back after gaining an average of 1700 yards a season. The college he went to switched his position to linebacker. He made All Conference three times at that position and 2nd team All American in his Senior year. After getting drafted by a team in the USFL (Showing my age) that team switched him to nose guard, where he was 2nd team All Pro. With the folding of the USFL, he tried out for the Steelers as a defensive end and made the team where he played for 2 seasons, starting 1 game. If you have the talent, you can adapt to any position.


Not to diminish the obvious accomplishments of your brother's friend, but what do you think the odds are of the exact same thing happening today in the NFL? That would be a once in several generations athletic talent today, and I seriously doubt the possibility at all. Like Bryson said, I don't want it to completely go away I simply want it to be incredibly rare. LBs to DBs shouldnt be a crazy proposition, nor should WR to RB and vice versa, but TE to RB or OL should be incredibly rare, as should DB to DL or RB to OL.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By bgedgerly
4/23/2017 4:24 pm
Booger926 wrote:
bgedgerly wrote:
I think this would be an easy fix to implement, and it would make the game more realistic.


Yea, because one can't get enough of long bombs and blitzes every play.


That issue is being addressed in the latest update that will be in all leagues shortly. This is one that I feel needs to follow.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By raymattison21
4/23/2017 9:49 pm
bgedgerly wrote:
Booger926 wrote:
bgedgerly wrote:

There is no reason that a college MLB should be able to walk in the the pros and play any position other than LB effectively, or be able to do so for several years. Have the non-major positions grow much slower than their 'natural positions' so that spending a high draft pick on a player you plan to move isn't as inviting. Naturally, intelligence will still determine how fast someone can advance at a different position. I think this would be an easy fix to implement, and it would make the game more realistic.


I have to argue with your reasoning be cause I know personally how a person can adapt to a position.
My older brother's friend with who he also played football was a All American and highly recruited high school running back after gaining an average of 1700 yards a season. The college he went to switched his position to linebacker. He made All Conference three times at that position and 2nd team All American in his Senior year. After getting drafted by a team in the USFL (Showing my age) that team switched him to nose guard, where he was 2nd team All Pro. With the folding of the USFL, he tried out for the Steelers as a defensive end and made the team where he played for 2 seasons, starting 1 game. If you have the talent, you can adapt to any position.


Not to diminish the obvious accomplishments of your brother's friend, but what do you think the odds are of the exact same thing happening today in the NFL? That would be a once in several generations athletic talent today, and I seriously doubt the possibility at all. Like Bryson said, I don't want it to completely go away I simply want it to be incredibly rare. LBs to DBs shouldnt be a crazy proposition, nor should WR to RB and vice versa, but TE to RB or OL should be incredibly rare, as should DB to DL or RB to OL.


His example sounds perfectly reasonable . Too slow to play rb then too slow to play lb and now plays on the line. Guys don't get faster like that, but they do get bigger and stronger as long as they don't have to run as far.

You guys are talking about physiological limitations . The body can only do so much. THe fact that I was 6'2 175 coming out of high school left alot of room to grow in to a lot of positions. Gaining 50 pounds naturally in 4 years was way harder than learning/ playing every position over my life time.

Still, not everyone has the frame / potential to do so . You lose conditioning as one gets too muscle bound, and each position has different demands physically depending how far and how often you run in each game. More muscles equal more power but this power is not functional over longer distances.

Learning to play position should be dictateD by intelligence , but certain positions rely on natural instinct and by no means should be a limilter. Plenty of probowlers are dumb , but they all are physically gifted. They are born that way.

Before I every touched a weight or actually trained I still had a 36 inch vertical . I just played video games and showed up to practice /games. Zero off season. After training all my measurables increased along with my weight, but once I reached 225 pounds my long distance abilities began to deminish.

Players like bo Jackson were athletic freaks and changing positions should be determined by frame. Body mass index , cause without the right weight nobody is playing any position, but here anybody can play any where cause speed / fatigue is dictated by weight not frame
( weight divided by height )

Capping what weight ranges a player can get to will cap position changes. It in the plans and using frame will help.

Remember usian bolt is 6'5 and never runs over 200 meters LeBron is 6'8 and had to lose weight cause his calves kept cramping up late in those playoff games. It about the positions physical demands.

Wr and Dbs run 10 to 20 times further than oline and dline each game . It's also a factor of why they are injured more and when you are completely exhausted nothing in your body works not even your brain. So everyone is equal when they are exhausted no matter how smart they are when fresh.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Pernbronze
4/23/2017 11:10 pm
bgedgerly wrote:
Booger926 wrote:
bgedgerly wrote:

There is no reason that a college MLB should be able to walk in the the pros and play any position other than LB effectively, or be able to do so for several years. Have the non-major positions grow much slower than their 'natural positions' so that spending a high draft pick on a player you plan to move isn't as inviting. Naturally, intelligence will still determine how fast someone can advance at a different position. I think this would be an easy fix to implement, and it would make the game more realistic.


I have to argue with your reasoning be cause I know personally how a person can adapt to a position.
My older brother's friend with who he also played football was a All American and highly recruited high school running back after gaining an average of 1700 yards a season. The college he went to switched his position to linebacker. He made All Conference three times at that position and 2nd team All American in his Senior year. After getting drafted by a team in the USFL (Showing my age) that team switched him to nose guard, where he was 2nd team All Pro. With the folding of the USFL, he tried out for the Steelers as a defensive end and made the team where he played for 2 seasons, starting 1 game. If you have the talent, you can adapt to any position.


Not to diminish the obvious accomplishments of your brother's friend, but what do you think the odds are of the exact same thing happening today in the NFL? That would be a once in several generations athletic talent today, and I seriously doubt the possibility at all. Like Bryson said, I don't want it to completely go away I simply want it to be incredibly rare. LBs to DBs shouldnt be a crazy proposition, nor should WR to RB and vice versa, but TE to RB or OL should be incredibly rare, as should DB to DL or RB to OL.


TE to tackle is actually one of the more common position switches.
Last edited at 4/23/2017 11:11 pm

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Pernbronze
4/23/2017 11:30 pm
I think a frame limiter would be best suited to solve the position switching issue. The frame having a significant impact on the players would solve most of the issues. Some players (especially common in late rounders in real life) have the frame to play almost any position. Others have a frame that is only effective at one.

That said in implementing this there will be a big shortage of quality and middling players. You are complaining that there are too many elite players but it is actually very accurate, it just doesn't look like it because everyone sees them and takes them in the first round rather than finding them throughout the draft.

Limiting position switches would most likely need to be compensated by stat limits. For example the receivers having 50 speed or more, there is not the massive amount of difference shown in this game in receivers speed in real life and similar scenarios at every position. There would be dramatic differences in say a CB's catching or stripping, or a WR's break tackle.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Brrexkl
4/24/2017 6:57 am
setherick wrote:
Bryson10 wrote:
i think the number of players with elite skills should be lowered on incoming draft classes. I was looking at all the fast speedy quarterbacks in our league and thinking about how unrealistic that is. In real football there are only a handful of running quarterbacks that have top end speed. It just lessens the value of the elite players when so many guys have the same 100 ratings. I would love to see it very rare to see a linebacker for example have 100 speed. Only a few in the league, and then it's tapered down to like an average of 80 or something. I think with all positions it should be like that then when you do see a guy with 100 you look at him in a different light.


As soon as the "true speed" conversion goes through, you won't see any LBs with 100 SP. But, yes, I agree.

What I would really like to see is Speed based on 40 time. And each position have a range where the top speed is the fastest speed ever recorded at the combine for a position for a player at weight. So the fastest an RB, WR, or CB could be is 4.2. The fastest an LB could be is 4.4. DE at 4.5. And so on. Then have speed move up or down dependent on weight and frame or whatever else.


I ABSOLUTELY HATE Weight being tied to speed. It's stupid. It really is.

Randy Moss and Bo Jackson were two of the fastest guys in the NFL... both were big men. Both were as fast as Chris Johnson, if not faster, and CJ was still over 200 (203).

Bo was 230, and Randy was 210.

You don't have to be 132 pounds to be fast, you don't have to be 4'11" to be fast. Randy was 6'4".

People try to talk about the 'Physics' of it, but that simply isn't the case. Plenty of taller and heavier guys are faster than shorter and lighter guys.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Gustoon - League Admin
4/24/2017 10:04 am
setherick wrote:
Bryson10 wrote:
setherick wrote:
Bryson10 wrote:
i think the number of players with elite skills should be lowered on incoming draft classes. I was looking at all the fast speedy quarterbacks in our league and thinking about how unrealistic that is. In real football there are only a handful of running quarterbacks that have top end speed. It just lessens the value of the elite players when so many guys have the same 100 ratings. I would love to see it very rare to see a linebacker for example have 100 speed. Only a few in the league, and then it's tapered down to like an average of 80 or something. I think with all positions it should be like that then when you do see a guy with 100 you look at him in a different light.


As soon as the "true speed" conversion goes through, you won't see any LBs with 100 SP. But, yes, I agree.

What I would really like to see is Speed based on 40 time. And each position have a range where the top speed is the fastest speed ever recorded at the combine for a position for a player at weight. So the fastest an RB, WR, or CB could be is 4.2. The fastest an LB could be is 4.4. DE at 4.5. And so on. Then have speed move up or down dependent on weight and frame or whatever else.


Ya like the idea of 40 times for sure. I wonder if there's a place jdb can get all the different combine numbers over the years? if he could he could actually base the algorithm for draft classes on the real players.


I also like the idea of scouting that was mentioned above. Maybe make it as easy as a team could only scout X number of players in the draft. Those players they scouted they would have accurate numbers including volatility. For the other players, they would only know the non-improvable skills like Speed, Intelligence, Strength ... the things you can learn at a combine without watching film and doing interviews.

Just imagine the first time you draft that 100 SP, ST, and INT LB only to realize he can't tackle or cover or rush the passer...

Last edited at 4/24/2017 10:04 am

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Pernbronze
4/24/2017 12:19 pm
I think it'd be awesome if college games were tied to your league so you could watch them and scout the players game tape for yourself. If you really wanted to get intense turn it into a guessing game for actual value (before volatility is taken into account) and each game you guess a number for each draft player in the game in 3 attributes (can choose any attributes each game but only 3) and it tells you higher or lower and you can narrow it down each game. The number given is what he starts the season with but his volatility goes throughout the season and isn't revealed until training camp what direction he was trending and how much (as it is now), however you will see it in his play if you watch closely (not necessarily stats). For example improving pass rush, he breaks more blocks. When the draft rolls around you can set your draft board then look back through the games and have a better guess at his improvement, staying at his current stats or regression. Volatility is never shown.

Re: Draft: Rounds 5,6 & 7

By Gustoon - League Admin
4/24/2017 1:54 pm
Pernbronze wrote:
I think it'd be awesome if college games were tied to your league so you could watch them and scout the players game tape for yourself. If you really wanted to get intense turn it into a guessing game for actual value (before volatility is taken into account) and each game you guess a number for each draft player in the game in 3 attributes (can choose any attributes each game but only 3) and it tells you higher or lower and you can narrow it down each game. The number given is what he starts the season with but his volatility goes throughout the season and isn't revealed until training camp what direction he was trending and how much (as it is now), however you will see it in his play if you watch closely (not necessarily stats). For example improving pass rush, he breaks more blocks. When the draft rolls around you can set your draft board then look back through the games and have a better guess at his improvement, staying at his current stats or regression. Volatility is never shown.


Its a nice idea, especially if you have buckets of time to do that, alas most on here (I'm guessing) don't even watch a majority of their own teams games.
However I do think you've kind of hit on something....how about on the player card in details have a short concise bio on a player, obviously with 100s of players in every draft you can't have a different write up, so a bit like volatility boom/bust have a short write up from about 30 templates????