Actually, it isnt that hard to copy, just look at the game play logs, they tell all. And its not just Infinity, several exp/winning gms know about the 113 Counter and 212 run plays that are the most successful by far, along with the pass plays that are also the most successful. Defense is no big secret either, if you look at the game play logs of the top gms/teams, its mostly 3 or 4 blitzes with a lot of run key and pass key on 3rd & long if the opponent tendency is there. Personally, I dont like the fact that this is what you have to use to compete with those that do, but that is the way it is until there is a major change in the gameplay/engine. In addition to the key plays, it also helps a lot to have the key players with the critical attribute values to execute both the off & def plays. Good example is Infinity's ex-team in 19, LA, now run by guido after the Infinity drop out because he wasnt scoring enough, lol. The guy is dominating the game, then flips out because he's not dominating it enough, and complaining about passing inconsistancy. Thats like a billionaire complaining that he didnt make an extra million. As mentioned before, there are those that cant just enjoy playing the game, accepting the inconsistencies and all. They have to "own it", and beat the **** out of everyone else or there's something wrong with the game. Fortunately, its only a few and not a bunch. But, the game of football, with the "win or ****" mentality that is fed to us from childhood on, tends to bring that out way more than other games. Undefeated, record-setting, several years in a row champion, dynasty's, "We're #1!!", etc, etc. That is where a lot of the "frustration" with this game is generated from, the absolute need to be absolutely perfect and be in total control of the outcome. I could be wrong or off base, its an opinion and you know what they say about that, but thats my take from being around a long time and being into the game of football, both real and fake. Dont get me wrong, I like winning too, but I also like playing the game and not knowing which way things are going to go, like in real football when for whatever reason(s), the team just isnt playing well that day. 16-0 in the N you know what L, doesnt happen very often, only once in how many years? How often does it happen in MFN? quite a bit. So the simulation has a ways to go to correct that, if that is a goal, to be as much a simulation of the real thing as possible.

Some good points GrandadB, as I said awhile back,its not like being on the sideline, but its
close. With a machine,close is all you will get,imo!

This was my last feeble attempt to challenge infinty into staying as a prior challenge thread that was deleted. My words were a mockery by this point and no real truth was being said just a different way to motivate. I got him fired up and it was clear he was leaving anyway. I wish the best and hope he returns soon!

But....this is how i see it.

When i joined defense ruled. Nobody scored i mean nobody. Then it blew up and nobody could stop anybody and everybody used the same plays. Except blitzing. Only about a dozen guys were giving insight to the nuances of the game. IMO, not much experimenting was going on then and nobody was talking about findings. Or hey had none? Whatever.

When i joined MFN 1 jokes were made, but i killed in my first draft landing two grade A CBs. Also, at that time people in forums were bashing the 3-4 saying LBs werent getting sacks. So, loving the 3-4, and finally finding a game i can imploy a D for free i felt that as a challenge and made a high blitzing/ pressure scheme. Heavy man with a cover 1.

Not rocket science, but i held my first three opponents(good veteran players) to low QB ratings and was killing it after. Pressure was weakened as a result. Then nobody was getting sacks, and by then more owner were catching on as i clearly stated that i was blitzing the WLB on a minimum of 75 percent of the plays and that why my D was doing so good.

So, that is when the masses started using heavy blitz packages. Dropping linemens speed highlighted more code problems that linger with pressure today, and setherick and infinity highlighted the power the keys just recently in the forums.

This is good for the game to have transparency between players and insight in to their strategies. As the game tightens into a final product i would reveal less info, but in a beta state these interactions are crucial. Egos wiil be present always, but one will only have to let go of the pride for second for real progress to be made that will last the longevity of the game.

This was my whole point. If he were the best at appling this well known method, please show us how. Because i am already trying to master more well rounded strageties and believe these ones are old and out dated as i truely believe the game is beyond that and if you focus on those strageties you are dumbing down JDBs game.

In 75 i am using the same plays but by no means the same way under the old code. I have many plays i have never used before in this game at high priority in that plan. Even in 19 where the old code is being used i am preparing my team for next season with a whole new defensive scheme based off the new code. Also, My D in 75 is a whole new game plan featuring a blended version of my highschools 5-2 if you get creative. It gets burned just like in highschool, but my D has no play experience. If it is not working by week 8....give up, but i think i am on to something. Maybe.

Really that is how i see this game and real life football. I want like 30 different game plans that fit my team that depending on what weaknesses the other teams has. Once created here. I will just load one up for a game and tweak rosters and key downs to that scheme. That way an opponent could not key on much unless they guessed right.

The pats isolated houstons stars and took them right out of the game. Just by playing a deeper coverage. Making Watt disappear in the stat line was like a magic trick to me. Houstons players and coaches were baffled. Football is a stragety game that should react different in different situation .

Plays work better IRL too. You old timers got to remember the days coaches said running QB will never play in the pros. Boy were they wrong. Teams run such advanded schemes these days it all about deception.

Once a play editor is added and a user code not break the code with that is when the best football simulation game will have been created.

Right!? I am a Houston fan, but Belichick out-coached us. We were unable to respond well because Nuk Hopkins is an intermediate-to-deep receiver and Fuller is the next Djax. They made sure there was a top on the defense, which completely kept us unable to compete in the passing game. Sure, DeAndre Hopkins has a chance to work some magic on shorter throws as well due to his elite ability, but you can minimize his impact, which is exactly what New England did against a fairly inexperienced QB. They forced Houston to win with a combo of one of the worst TEs in the league (Ryan Griffin, who can't block at all and lacks the elite pass-catching talent of someone like Jordan Reed that makes that type of TE worth starting) and a running game led by one of the league's better backs - who is having a rough start to the season due to lack of blockers. Miller is an outside runner, and New England was able to keep him playing mediocre by forcing Houston to field a Y TE who can't block so that their offense wasn't one-dimensional, which is what it would have been if Fiedorowicz, Houston's solid blocking tight end. His play wouldn't have mattered blocking because Houston would only have been able to run, allowing NE to stuff the Texans' ground game even more.

If only this game was as fluid as that, but I enjoy it, and will take it for what it is. Who knows though, I'm pretty new (I think I first joined in May or June) and may change my mind later, like some of these more experienced gms are. For now, though, I think I'll just relax and enjoy one of the best free online football simulators out there.

A couple of things... When you say 'Play Editor', do you mean they that we can adjust plays? I, for one, don't want to see that. I'm happy with picking from the plays we have. I know the issues, that some plays don't work and then other plays work TOO well, (which is just as bad if not worse.) I don't envy JDB making these plays, trying to make sure they work but not too well...

As far as the evolution of the game goes, MFN seems to imitating real life here. Every few years, a new offensive strategy is tested and found successful. We've all seen it happen. West Coast offense, Greatest Show on Turf , Ground and Pound, the Option. One teams tries it, other teams copy it, then defensive strategies are developed to stop it. It been going on decades, and it's awesome.

MFN is the same thing. Right now, the Blitz rules the day. And someone will figure out how to beat it, and then everyone will copy it. Then defenses will adjust. Etc, etc, etc. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way it is. I love it.

And for the record, Belichek is a genius. He has been figuring out ways to stifle opponents strengths for years. And exploit opponents weaknesses. The Patriots are chameleons, that's why they win.

I am guilty of that the past week, as I am also the "noob" here, and I can tell you that it was also a mistake btw my game plan & the rules which produced the few play calls, and I am remedying that. I also looked at the play calls, especially on defense play selection of the "continual winners", who win and win and win while everyone else focuses their attention on all the things about their team and individual players that bother them and dont pay any attention to what is actually, consistently winning.
I was told that I'm a "copier" and need to develop my own "style", by one of the "continual winners" who also gave me a lot of information about player value and what positions were the most important when I started out a couple of months ago. Yeah, I look at what works and wins and use what I find, but the way the game works with the current engine does not allow for a lot of individual "style" if you want to compete with one of the "continual winners". I look at what play or scheme causes a successful result and wins, same as what they do in the real game, and if something continually works, I tend to do the same. There are a group of plays on both offense and defense, that provide a higher % of successful outcomes, and there are counter measures if you know that is what your opponent uses. You are also guided to these plays by simply looking at the scouting of both O & D when facing top teams. And additionally you are guided to the most successful plays by looking at the outcomes on both your O & D play lists. When it comes to having a top, competitive team the same is true for allocation draft scheme... no big secret if you look, get four elite level DBs in the first 6 picks, that is mandatory if you want to have a competitive chance and what I did, same as the CW's. I dont like being limited to a few plays, and only using one or two more than 25 times in a game, which was also a mistake as I am still learning how to combine the rules, overrides, and gameplan and I apologize for that happening. I would rather lose than have my fellow gms that I respect in this game be upset and unhappy with what I am doing. So, all in all, I totally agree with what eyeball has stated and will continue to model my gameplan & play calls based on what I see and learn from the "continual winners".

I would suggest the pendulum of shifting trends and copycats is both unavoidable and emblematic of the NFL. Hey, West Coast offense seems to be winning championships, so now everybody's running it. Except now everybody's drafting speedy linebackers and running a Tampa 2 zone to defeat it. So now teams start running vertical systems, so now teams are disguising coverage with zone blitzes, so now ... etc. to infinity.

So much of this discussion is noise to the real concern I have here: The passing game is fucked.

No matter your roster talent, opponent or skill level as a GM, no matter the bag of AI-busting tricks you deploy, no matter how many or few plays you run, you may struggle to get your QB to consistently complete 50 percent of his passes from one week to the next. Someone show me the NFL team that routinely completes 40% every other week (or ever), interchanged with 130+ QBR performances. The explanation always seems to be reduced to dice rolls, which exacerbates frustration.

It's one thing to call the same defensive plays on accident (39) double LB Blitzes and (24)dime cb3 & CB. 5 blitz in the first game of the season and on offense I'm gonna guess around 30-40 times you called HB flare and one other play. In week two not much changed except the 1-1-3 run play that you say so famously works. 31 carries -15 yards was how good that worked.

yeah but if someone says this play works like 1-1-3 run play most likely everyone will make a defense RULE to defend against it so they wont get burnt by it.

Same for if like there was a defense play that works like 99 percent of time most likely people will try to make a rule against it to either find a way to beat it or make it where if it is called by the defense that it wont be a huge loss.

Though will say i would imagine everyone would put that offense play and that defense play in their playbook

Yes, but the trade off of that shitty completion percentage is that there are way too many long passes completed into good coverage. You can just chuck and pray and that's a viable offense in this game. Notice how a lot of those 50% completion QBs still manage to average 9-10 yard per attempt?